I wanted to wait until End of Eva's showing before starting this thread. The overall goals are to...
-Be a sounding board off of which to bounce ideas
-Answer questions, clear misconceptions, etc...
To start things off, I'd like to correct a slight error in translation that I'm surprised got through a fansub. Humans are descended from Lilith, but Adam is not. Essentially, Lilith is to humans as Adam is to the Angels.
Supplement I think that the whole bit about whether or not there was a rape causes people to stray from the main point, but there you are.
_________________ Is Metroid's gun attached to his hand, or is it a part of his suit?
So, what's going on with this scene in episode 1? To provide a refresher, Shinji has only just been introduced to the audience, and sees an apparition of Rei in her school uniform while awaiting Misato. More likely than not, this cannot be the actual Rei at that particular time (given that she is a-injured, b-at Nerv HQ, c-in her plugsuit and not the aforementioned school outfit). It is also very important to note that this cannot simply be "in Shinji's head" because he has never met Rei. In episode 2, as he recalls all that has taken place while at Nerv, this shot again comes foward to his conscience. It is established then, that what he saw was indeed real.
The most obvious comparison to this shot is the penultimate scene in End of Eva. After Instrumentality has been rejected and the Lilith-Adam-Rei hybrid... thing has died, Rei is seen standing above the sea of LCL.
The biggest clue suggesting a connection is within episode 23, when Ritsuko shows the location of Rei's "birth" to Shinji and Misato. Within that room (which also clearly parallels Rei's current room at her decrepit quarters) on the walls are written the words "Top", "Bottom", and "Strangeness". These are terms associated with quantum mechanics, and are specifically the name of quark flavors. Anno has a very economical style of writing, especially during the last few episodes. In light of that, it must be concluded that this is a hint as to Rei's nature. Why this is so significant is that very elementary particles like the quark behave in very odd ways that defy ordinary laws of physics/reality. In End of Eva, Rei absorbs Adam and then reunites with Lilith. Consequently, she gains godlike abilities and can be anywhere/anytime at once (as seen when "Tanging" people so that their souls can be collected into the Black Moon). A couple of previous scenes illustrate Rei's transcending of time and space, specifically the "deaths" of Ritsuko and Misato.
Given all of this evidence, the general conclusion among the fan community is that Shinji is observing the gestalt incarnation of Rei formed during End of Eva.
tl;dr watch this. V is definitely rough around the edges and not at all admired by certain fans, but he definitely puts in effort.
_________________ Is Metroid's gun attached to his hand, or is it a part of his suit?
I'm rewatching the dub, so I'll use that script. dealwithit.gif
From episode 14, Weaving a Story
Rei is undergoing a interchangeability test with Unit 01. During it, she experiences a series of visions and comments on each.
Original post by Rei Mountains, heavy are the mountains. But that changes, with the passage of time. Sky, blue sky, what your eyes can't see, what your eyes can see.
Mountain and Sky are simply other expressions of earth and heaven, which are often seen as opposites and specifically with the concept of a body (earth) vs soul (heaven). The mountains that change over time then likely refer to the transcience of physical form.
Original post by Rei The sun, one, only one. Water, it is agreeable, Commander Ikari.
Mountains, the sky, sun, and water loosely represent the four classically defined elements of nature.
Original post by Rei Flowers, so many the same, so many without purpose
Original post by Rei Sky, sky of red, red the color, the color I hate.
Episode 26 has Rei refer to a setting sun during her Instrumentality "case". During the series, red is the color most associated with Asuka.
Original post by Rei Liquid flows, it drips, ripples, and pours. Blood, scent of blood, woman who does not bleed.
The elements (flowers, sky, water, blood) have been listed again.
Original post by Rei From the red soil the humans come. Humans made by man and woman. City, a human creation . Eva, a human creation as well. What are humans? Are they creations of God? Humans, that which is created by humans.
Obviously the first three lines are references to the first few chapters of Genesis. Digging really deep here, but from "red soil" to man being "created by humans" may very well parallel the concept of the Lesser Countenance. Becoming familiar with the Kabbalah really helps with this series.
Original post by Rei This is that which is mine. My life, my heart. I am a vessel for my thoughts.
Going off of the Kabbalistic interpretation above, for each individual the has ever existed, there is a soul assigned to a vessel/body.
Original post by Rei The entry plug, the throne of the soul.
As the Evas are the "highest" form of existence aside from Adam and Lilith, the entry plug is a "throne of the soul" for the Lilim pilots.
Original post by Rei Who is this? This is me.
This really marks the beginning of Rei attempting to establish her identity, something that will be quite muddled up several episodes later on. Roughly, this could be seen as "I think, therefore I am. This doesn't quite satisfy her though.
Original post by Rei Who am I? What am I? What am I? What am I? I am I. This object that is, is myself. That which forms me.
Rei takes another crack at it, and arrives at "I am that I am". Her image is formed as the result of links between herself and others. This isn't quite the whole story though.
Original post by Rei This is the self that can be seen, and yet this is not like that which is myself.
Rei realizes that her "self" is not merely an object; something else lies beyond, and she peers past the metaphorcal wall
Original post by Rei A strange feeling. My body feels as if it is melting. I can no longer see myself. My form, my shape fades from view. Awareness dawns of someone who is not me. Who is here? There? Beyond me, here
Rei discovers the part of her that has not been fashioned by bond; her soul and true identity as Lilith. The description of a body melting is very similar to Shinji describing Instrumentality in episode 25.
Original post by Rei Shinji. This person I know, Major Katsuragi. Dr. Akagi. People, my classmates. The pilot of Unit 02. Commander Ikari. Who are you? Who are you? Who are you?
Rei then lists those people with whom she has a bond from strongest to weakest. Most notable is that Gendo is at the very bottom of this pecking order. Clearly there have been some changes in attitudes over time. In the very next episode, Shinji inquires as to what kind of person his father is to her, only to receive "I don't know" as a response.
The last three lines of "Who are you?" eventually lead to a brief shot of Unit 01's head without "armor". This seems to imply that Rei is posing the question to the Eva and in turn Yui. Perhaps this entire monologue was trigered by Rei's contact with Yui, which also creates another crisis in identity for the First Child.
pic kinda related
lol edits
_________________ Is Metroid's gun attached to his hand, or is it a part of his suit?
Although this organization has members who are University of Virginia students and may have University employees associated or engaged in its activities and affairs, the organization is not a part of or an agency of the University. It is a separate and independent organization which is responsible for and manages its own activities and affairs. The University does not direct, supervise or control the organization and is not responsible for the organization’s contracts, acts or omissions.
. It is also very important to note that this cannot simply be "in Shinji\'s head" because he has never met Rei. In episode 2, as he recalls all that has taken place while at Nerv, this shot again comes foward to his conscience. It is established then, that what he saw was indeed real.
\n
\nThe most obvious comparison to this shot is the penultimate scene in End of Eva. After Instrumentality has been rejected and the Lilith-Adam-Rei hybrid... [i]thing[/i] has died, Rei is seen standing above the sea of LCL.
\n<img src="http://wiki.evageeks.org/images/7/7f/M26_C468_Rei_III_L.C.L_Sea.jpg"/>
\n
\nThe biggest clue suggesting a connection is within episode 23, when Ritsuko shows the location of Rei\'s "birth" to Shinji and Misato. Within that room (which also clearly parallels Rei\'s current room at her decrepit quarters) on the walls are written the words "Top", "Bottom", and "Strangeness". These are terms associated with quantum mechanics, and are specifically the name of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavour_(particle_physics)]quark flavors[/url]. Anno has a very economical style of writing, especially during the last few episodes. In light of that, it must be concluded that this is a hint as to Rei\'s nature. Why this is so significant is that very elementary particles like the quark behave in very odd ways that defy ordinary laws of physics/reality. In End of Eva, Rei absorbs Adam and then reunites with Lilith. Consequently, she gains godlike abilities and can be anywhere/anytime at once (as seen when "Tanging" people so that their souls can be collected into the Black Moon). A couple of previous scenes illustrate Rei\'s transcending of time and space, specifically the "deaths" of Ritsuko and Misato.
\n
\n<img src="http://allantk.free.fr/Mirroir-SITE/www.juzzam.com/EoEpix/RitsukoDies.JPG"/>
\n
\nGiven all of this evidence, the general conclusion among the fan community is that Shinji is observing the gestalt incarnation of Rei formed during End of Eva.
\n
\ntl;dr watch this. V is definitely rough around the edges and not at all admired by certain fans, but he definitely puts in effort.
\n[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNx-wsaEkZ4&feature=plcp[/url]')){kind=link}
![quick quote](javascript:quick_quote('bwbScram', 'I\'m rewatching the dub, so I\'ll use that script. dealwithit.gif
\n
\nFrom episode 14, Weaving a Story
\n
\nRei is undergoing a interchangeability test with Unit 01. During it, she experiences a series of visions and comments on each.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Mountains, heavy are the mountains. But that changes, with the passage of time. Sky, blue sky, what your eyes can\'t see, what your eyes can see.[/quote]
\nMountain and Sky are simply other expressions of earth and heaven, which are often seen as opposites and specifically with the concept of a body (earth) vs soul (heaven). The mountains that change over time then likely refer to the transcience of physical form.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]The sun, one, only one.
\nWater, it is agreeable, Commander Ikari.[/quote]
\nMountains, the sky, sun, and water loosely represent the four classically defined elements of nature.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Flowers, so many the same, so many without purpose[/quote]
\nThis more than likely refers to the [url=http://wiki.evageeks.org/Dummy_Plug_Plant]Dummy Plug Plant (aka Reiquarium)[/url]
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Sky, sky of red, red the color, the color I hate.[/quote]
\nEpisode 26 has Rei refer to a setting sun during her Instrumentality "case". During the series, red is the color most associated with Asuka.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Liquid flows, it drips, ripples, and pours.
\nBlood, scent of blood, woman who does not bleed.[/quote]
\nThe elements (flowers, sky, water, blood) have been listed again.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]From the red soil the humans come.
\nHumans made by man and woman.
\nCity, a human creation .
\nEva, a human creation as well.
\nWhat are humans?
\nAre they creations of G[b][/b]od?
\nHumans, that which is created by humans.[/quote]
\nObviously the first three lines are references to the first few chapters of Genesis. Digging really deep here, but from "red soil" to man being "created by humans" may very well parallel the concept of the [url=http://www.polarissite.net/TOL/Countenances.htm]Lesser Countenance[/url]. Becoming familiar with the Kabbalah really helps with this series.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]This is that which is mine.
\nMy life, my heart.
\nI am a vessel for my thoughts.[/quote]
\nGoing off of the Kabbalistic interpretation above, for each individual the has ever existed, there is a soul assigned to a vessel/body.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]The entry plug, the throne of the soul.[/quote]
\nAs the Evas are the "highest" form of existence aside from Adam and Lilith, the entry plug is a "throne of the soul" for the Lilim pilots.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Who is this? This is me.[/quote]
\nThis really marks the beginning of Rei attempting to establish her identity, something that will be quite muddled up several episodes later on. Roughly, this could be seen as "I think, therefore I am. This doesn\'t quite satisfy her though.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Who am I? What am I? What am I? What am I?
\nI am I.
\nThis object that is, is myself.
\nThat which forms me.
\n[/quote]
\nRei takes another crack at it, and arrives at "I am that I am". Her image is formed as the result of links between herself and others. This isn\'t quite the whole story though.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]This is the self that can be seen, and yet this is not like that which is myself.[/quote]
\nRei realizes that her "self" is not merely an object; something else lies beyond, and she peers past the metaphorcal wall
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]A strange feeling.
\nMy body feels as if it is melting.
\nI can no longer see myself.
\nMy form, my shape fades from view.
\nAwareness dawns of someone who is not me.
\nWho is here? There? Beyond me, here[/quote]
\nRei discovers the part of her that has not been fashioned by bond; her soul and true identity as Lilith. The description of a body melting is very similar to Shinji describing Instrumentality in episode 25.
\n
\n[quote="Rei"]Shinji.
\nThis person I know, Major Katsuragi.
\nDr. Akagi.
\nPeople, my classmates.
\nThe pilot of Unit 02.
\nCommander Ikari.
\nWho are you? Who are you? Who are you?[/quote]
\nRei then lists those people with whom she has a bond from strongest to weakest. Most notable is that Gendo is at the very bottom of this pecking order. Clearly there have been some changes in attitudes over time. In the very next episode, Shinji inquires as to what kind of person his father is to her, only to receive "I don\'t know" as a response.
\n
\nThe last three lines of "Who are you?" eventually lead to a brief shot of Unit 01\'s head without "armor". This seems to imply that Rei is posing the question to the Eva and in turn Yui. Perhaps this entire monologue was trigered by Rei\'s contact with Yui, which also creates another crisis in identity for the First Child.
\n
\npic kinda related
\n
\nlol edits
\n')){kind=link}